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Coffee Social | Social Media Marketing, Content Creation, & Entrepreneurship
3 Powerful Tips for Surviving The Holidays When Grieving | S2 E9
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As entrepreneurs, sometimes we’re the ones handling everything. From content creation to customer emails - how can we possibly take the time to grieve and still show up for our businesses? Thankfully, in this episode of Coffee Social, we had a very special guest join us - Michelle Gil aka The Grief Curator.
Michelle guides us through understanding grief beyond the loss of a loved one, encompassing the loss of dreams or friendships, and highlights its unique impact on entrepreneurs. She unravels the concepts of grief and depression, offering practical insights for identifying and navigating these emotions daily to maintain balance in our lives.
Balancing the emotional weight of grief with the demands of business is no small feat, particularly during the hectic holiday period. This episode offers a candid discussion on setting boundaries, prioritizing self-care, and resisting cultural pressures to always be productive.
It’s not a light topic, but it is a topic that needs to be talked about more.
Grab a cup, enjoy, and please feel free to also share this episode with someone who is experiencing grief.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
: Is it depression or grief?
: Preparation is key for this time of year!
: Communicate and set boundaries.
: Lean in on virtual or in person therapy or grief groups.
: Give yourself permission to stop for a second.
: Build breaks to acknowledge grief during your work day.
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Definition of Aforementioned: mentioned previously
MICHELLE’S LINKS
Holiday Grief-Line (3 Personalized, Emergency Calls)
https://thegriefcurator.com/holiday-grief-line/
The Grief Circle (Starts 1/25/2025)
https://thegriefcurator.com/grief-circle/
Grief Podcast: https://dont-tell-me-to-get-over-it.captivate.fm/listen
Instagram: @thegriefcurator
Website: https://thegriefcurator.com/
Substack: https://thegriefcurator.substack.com/
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Start there, that grief is not something that you get over. It's not something you need to get over. Once grief enters your life, it is there for the rest of your life. But that's not as scary as it sounds. It's Coffee Social, the podcast, all about social media and business. And now here are your hosts, jonathan Howard and Mimi Langley.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, hi Jonathan.
Speaker 3:Howard. Hello, mimi Langley, I've got my cheers cup ready.
Speaker 2:Well, hold on Before we cheers. Do you feel like that was too cheery? I mean, we're talking about grief today.
Speaker 3:We are talking about grief today.
Speaker 2:Should I be lower? What do you guys?
Speaker 3:think I'm going to lower my voice. What's that? I'm going to lower my voice and I'm going to talk like this the entire episode.
Speaker 2:No, we have to keep it real, jonathan, but yes, cheers everyone. This is the real me Cheers, cheers. This is a real conversation about grief. This is a real conversation about grief.
Speaker 3:It is a real conversation about grief. We're talking about grief today, with none other than Santa. Santa. No, we're not talking with Santa. Ho, ho ho.
Speaker 2:I was showing him my Santa mug. We're talking with the Michelle Gill, the grief curator.
Speaker 3:Who is the?
Speaker 2:She's the grief curator. She is the woman behind the opening song. The words to Coffee Social.
Speaker 3:Yes, and you know what? She doesn't sound anything like the words in our opening, but it's her. She holds space for people.
Speaker 2:So we thought Michelle would be perfect for an episode like this, where we're going to be talking about basically surviving the holidays and really a lot of what we're probably going to talk about today you can bring with you throughout the whole year, because grief is not just during the holidays, and especially as an entrepreneur. Jonathan, right yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I feel like we're always running and trying to figure out what's going on next and not paying attention to what's actually happening in the moment, and sometimes that leads to us ignoring things like grieving the people that we love that are no longer with us, and stuff like that I think it's time.
Speaker 2:I think we need to get into this, so feel free, grab a bottle of tissues. She's coming in, so we're so excited to have you here. Girl, did you bring your coffee?
Speaker 1:I brought my coffee.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, this is the time to cheers, Cheers everyone. Oh, I like the red, Michelle. I don't know if you recognize the no, who could?
Speaker 3:that be Very nice Thank you Hobby Lobby.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Hobby Lobby.
Speaker 3:Tell, tell everybody where we met jonathan we met um in washington dc no I mean, where do we meet before in person?
Speaker 2:what where do we meet, like before, in person, like clubhouse oh, I'm like what.
Speaker 3:Before we met in person, we were clubhouse friends, yes, virtual friends. So, yes, we got to meet in person in DC in August, so she knew we were real and yeah, so should we jump into what we were going to talk about today? Now that we're done laughing and getting our laughs? Out, I know we can be all serious for a second.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:Or an hour.
Speaker 2:You're right, like now. It's time we were kind of explaining, because this is just our personality and usually when you're talking about grief it's not light like what we're making of it, michelle, that's why we have you here, because you are the grief curator. You hold space for this kind of thing that everybody goes through Real quick. Just to set this up before we dive into the first question when someone hears the word grief, they just automatically associate it with losing someone, and so they're like I've never grieved anything, I've never lost someone in my life. Yet Can you just talk about grief, because you talk about it from all angles my life yet Can you just talk about grief Because you talk about it from all angles.
Speaker 1:Yes, typically, when people hear the word grief, they think of death in connection with that. So no, my parents haven't died. Nobody's died in my family. Nobody I know has died. So I don't grieve, or I've never grieved. But grief is about loss and we've all lost something or someone that might still be alive. I like to say that grief does involve death, but it's not always a physical death. But something has died, a dream has died, your hopes have died. Maybe you have lost a friend. It just didn't. You lost touch. It's not a physical death, but it's the death of a friendship. So grief covers a lot of areas of life and oftentimes people just don't recognize that that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, that actually is a perfect transition into the question you wanted to ask, jonathan, but if you want to set it is Okay.
Speaker 3:Well, that actually is a perfect transition into the question you wanted to ask, jonathan, but if you want to set it up, yeah, I mean, really, the question that I wanted to ask was more about. So many people are struggling through different things, especially during the holidays, which is kind of what we're talking about now. So how do they know, even if it's something, if they're dealing with grief, if they're unsure with all the heaviness that we're dealing with as entrepreneurs, as people in, you know, living right now in this day and age, how do we know that we're dealing with grief in this situation?
Speaker 1:That is such a great question because it can be difficult to tell. Grief has so many layers. One of the questions that I hear quite often is is it grief or depression? Because they can mimic each other, but one is very different from the other. Depressed, but, um, and you can be depressed but not necessarily grieving. It depends, um, I, right off the bat, I'm not a licensed therapist, so anything that I share with you guys today or your listeners, is for informational, educational purposes only. Um, I don't mess around with that kind of stuff. I um, it's not my lane.
Speaker 1:I always tell people, if there's any question, and especially if it has been going on a while, like really the deep dark, can't get yourself out of bed, can't get yourself out of this dark hole. Everything looks dim and black and you're never going to get out of this. And especially if there's any suicidal ideation which there can be suicidal ideation with grief. But again, contact somebody, dial 988. If you're thinking about that, very important not to second guess. So that would be my first layered answer. The second would be reach out. Reach out to somebody in your community that you feel safe with, somebody that you're comfortable with. It might be your best friend, it might be your therapist. I always recommend therapy.
Speaker 3:Therapy is great yeah very, very, very true, and I know there are many people that during the holidays they struggle and they're not sure which way to turn and how to manage it. So with that, I know that you have some steps that you would recommend for people to take. But I also want to just quickly see if Mimi has anything she wants to say. She's Mimi's okay, right.
Speaker 2:I feel like I should bring my box of tissues. I told you guys already I was like I've got my tissues here, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I mean just gosh the way you speak, michelle. By the way, michelle has a podcast about grief, you guys, which we'll link below. We'll talk more about that later. But I mean, this is what she does and she puts her all into it. It's just fascinating when she speaks on it. Yeah, you know, as entrepreneurs, especially if you're a full time entrepreneur, it's really hard to like slow down and things like like it's almost like we just kind of want to ignore how we're really feeling, michelle. So, yeah, you know what Jonathan was saying, we would, we, we need your help, michelle, is what we're trying to say. We need your help. What? What can people do to kind of get through it? Not resolve it necessarily, but just get through the holidays grieving as an entrepreneur. Any tips?
Speaker 1:Well, first I want to say k because of something that you just said. There isn't a way to get over it, you just get through it, and that's very true. In fact, that's why the title of my podcast and my upcoming memoir is Don't Tell Me to Get Over it. A lot of people will hear this phrase. Well, it's been X amount of time. Or come on, the family's all here, it's the holidays. Get over it and put on a brave face. Or put on your happy face. Get over yourself. Nobody wants to be around somebody who's, you know, a Debbie Downer. Nobody wants to be around the sad person in the room. Buck up.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of a lot of people in general, but especially grievers, will hear this type of insensitive comments. Sometimes these things are said out of ignorance. Sometimes they are said because the person talking to you is toxic. Sometimes it's said because the person saying it is they themselves, uncomfortable with grief, with negative feelings in general. Maybe they don't know how to express or get in touch with their own feelings. So it's good to start there that grief is not something that you get over. It's not something you need to get over. Once grief enters your life, it is there for the rest of your life. But that's not as scary as it sounds and we can get into that. So to your question specifically grieving as an entrepreneur, that's a big question.
Speaker 1:Griefing as an entrepreneur day, or because grief has overwhelmed you, everything stops right Because you're the president, the CEO, the CFO, the HR, the admin. You're everything. You're wearing so many hats. So one of the first things that I would recommend is to prepare. Just know the holidays are going to be tough regardless, and that's not calling that into existence, it's just recognizing reality.
Speaker 1:So, before the holidays come, make preparations. Maybe tell your customers hi, we're going to be closed from the 15th to January 2nd to take time off to spend with family. We hope that you're spending time with family too. You don't need to let them know that you're grieving, but you could let them know that you're just going to be taking some time off. Maybe batch record, maybe have posts scheduled so that there's still a presence, because you do serve your customer, you do serve your clientele. They need you until they meet you. But you also deserve to take time off. You deserve to hold space for yourself and you can do that by making just a little bit of preparation beforehand. And hey, if the holidays roll around and, for whatever reason, it's not as bad as you thought it was going to be great, you still deserve that time off and you can still do it in such a way that it doesn't harm your business. Does that give you a clue into that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean you said it though, michelle like is why being an entrepreneur, that's like a whole other world, and so I love that you touched upon it. Especially for a solopreneur, there's nowhere to lean on. You can't lean on your team to pick up the heavy load, because you're grieving. It really is you if it is just you. So that was really good about preparing ahead. I know Jonathan is like the king of. I mean, he pretty much has the whole year planned out Well normally I take November and December like my.
Speaker 3:I close business on November 10th usually, which is my birthday, and that's the end of my year. But this year is a little bit different. And that's the end of my year, but this year is a little bit different, so it's been a little bit crazy for me and stressful for things. I'm going on, but the one thing that Michelle pointed out and I want to reiterate is because this came up in a room that I was in yesterday your emotions are never invalid. Your emotions are never explicit. Your emotions are emotions and they're okay to have them.
Speaker 3:It's not something that you need to hide and I think that's important for people, especially entrepreneurs, because many times we go through life masking. You know we can't show our clients that we're upset. We can't show our clients that you know all this is happening. We just have to do what we need to do and emotions are real and emotions happen. We need to accept that they do.
Speaker 3:So I don't want to say I love that you said that, but I appreciate that you said that because I think it's something that's important for people to know and again, like just preparing, is so huge being able to be ready for that experience. Your experience of grieving through the holidays is incredible, is really. It's a key step, I'm sure, for everybody in general, but when you're grieving, I think it's really important. I know that Mimi and I talked, as we were prepping, about open communication and how it's important to communicate with your family. How would you communicate I think you kind of alluded to this a little bit but how would you communicate with your clients, your customers, the people that might be relying on you, especially if you have something they need during the holidays, like I'm a bakery?
Speaker 3:Oh that's a hard one.
Speaker 2:I wish I was a bakery. Wow, that's tough. I wish I was a bakery, by the way, and here's the thing you can't close down the bakery.
Speaker 1:One of my closest friends is a baker. She does gluten-free, allergy-free baking, and holidays are always the worst time, and she recently lost her father within the last couple of years and it's tough. I'll tell you this. Her attitude specifically is it still has to get done. It still has to get done. It doesn't mean that she ignores her grief, it just means that she sets it aside for a little while and carries on. Now she also has a team. She's not a solopreneur in the sense that she does have, you know, employees. Her husband is very supportive, but at the end of the day, the buck stops with her. So part of what she does is she does pre-orders. The holidays are coming.
Speaker 1:If you want a cake, if you want a Yule log, if you want gingerbread cookies which are the best gluten-free gingerbread cookies I've ever had Shout out to Kikshaw's To order. Here's the form and our last deadline is this date, and if you call after, that date sucks to be you. So that's a good way that you can prep and train your clientele. You can just say I've got pre-orders for something like that, for something that's generally like oh my gosh, it's the holidays so and I need to be open. So that's one way that you can do it.
Speaker 1:If you can't take off during that holiday rush, right before whichever holiday you're celebrating, then do that. But then put on your calendar. I'm going to take this much time off just for myself and I'm going to go away, or I'm going to do a staycation and book a spa, Whatever it is. Get the stuff done that you need to get done. I get that. The main thing is don't shove it down, because it becomes easy to do that, to just shove it down. I'll deal with it another day. I've got so much to do and then you never get a break and that grief keeps getting shoved down and shoved down until one day it can't anymore and the container of you breaks and then it's a big mess. So put it on your calendar. I love to do that anyway, because then when somebody says, hey, are you available? Blah, blah, blah, Nope, I'm booked that day. And on that day it might say nap from two to four, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. We need rest. Everything, everything on this planet has a rest period, has a fallow period. We not only deserve that, we need that. It's necessary. It's not a luxury. Vacation is not a luxury. It should not be seen like that at all. We need to rest. So that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:If you're an entrepreneur, a solopreneur, and your biggest days are right before the holidays, then okay, get it done. Do as much prep as possible, Do some pre-orders if you can, but then afterwards book that time out for yourself and rest. And do this even if you feel guilty or ashamed. This is very tough for us, especially in the United States. We're very. I must produce. I must be productive 24-7, 365 days a year. Or I'm not worth anything, or people won't love me, or I will fail, or the business will go kaboom. Or I will fail or the business will go kaboom. Step away, get away from that mentality. It's going to be okay. And then, when you come back from that rest, from sitting with your grief, from honoring your grief, you'll be ready and stronger to get the next phase done.
Speaker 3:So much packed into that, so many things that we need to learn and do and things we need to ignore from the entrepreneurs out there who are telling you you need to be making money in your sleep and all that stuff. That's all well and good, but we also need to take care of ourselves, which you definitely alluded to, and I'm going to be putting my two o'clock nap back on my calendar because I need, need to, yeah, I need to.
Speaker 3:It's going back on my calendar, so nobody can book me during that time because guess what?
Speaker 1:for me at the end of the day, when you die, you don't take any of your money with you and guess what? Everybody's gonna die. I'm sorry there's no.
Speaker 2:Not me, michelle, not me I'm being frozen into the wall. I'll be back in 20 years, like han solo so yeah, that doesn't really happen it does. It's a real thing. I don't know what they call it, but austin powers did it cryogenic, cryogenic it's a real thing.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it's real I'm they're working on it, but nobody is they.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, anyway, what were you gonna say, mimi?
Speaker 2:no, I was, you know. I don't know why this word kept jumping out at me, but boundaries, and stick with the boundaries. There's a reason why it keeps coming up for you to. You know, say no. We have a whole episode on how to say no, because I know sometimes it's hard, because you don't want to let the other person down, but you're like, well, I really do need to be off this day, so just go with your boundary. And then the other thing was the nap too. I took that with me as well, jonathan. I think the world needs more naps.
Speaker 3:The world needs more naps. I 100% agree.
Speaker 2:I do have a question for Michelle. The world needs more naps, I 100% agree. I do have a question for Michelle. Should we be this is just going back to communicating with our clientele, our followers, our audience, community Should we, is there a time, a good time, for us to be that vulnerable and tell them hey, we're grieving, Like Jonathan? You could probably answer this too or should we just keep that a secret, Like I don't know?
Speaker 1:So, I know that Jonathan had said that we mask too much and we need to be vulnerable and I know he does say that to his signature group that we need to be more vulnerable, because that's what connects us with people. I would add a caveat to that. I think it depends, number one, on it could depend on the business that you have. Number two, it depends on what your relationship is like with your clientele. How long have they known you? If you're just getting started out, let me word it this way it's only a lie when it is a truth withheld from someone who deserves to know it. I always use this example. So people who hid Jewish people during World War II and the Holocaust and they lied to the Gestapo and said, no, I'm not hiding any Jews here. That wasn't a lie, because the Gestapo did not have a right to know that they were hiding Jews there because they would have just killed them.
Speaker 1:So does your clientele need to know every nitty gritty of your life? Probably not. At the same time, if you do have a long and good relationship with them, I think it's okay to be like. We wanted to let everybody know that we just lost our father, we just lost my grandmother and we're taking some time off to grieve, and the reason I think it's okay to do that number one is we need to get over this, oh, get over this idea that grief is something to be hidden, something shameful, something that you should do on your own time and behind closed door in your house and that nobody needs to know. I disagree. I think grief is a part of life In many different cultures. It's a part of life. We need to bring that back in the West, I think Jonathan.
Speaker 3:So I will say, while I have a slightly different view on lying than you do now, I'm like oh man, she wins on that point, however, I feel like a lie is just absence of truth in my opinion, and when you are doing that to your audience, you're losing trust with your audience. Now, do you have to tell everything about your life? No, but you should tell the things that impact them and the things that you're comfortable talking about. So if you're comfortable saying and you know, if you're a family business and you lose your father, your audience sure as shit. Better be respectful of that, or they're not really your people, sure as shit.
Speaker 3:Better be respectful of that or they're not really your people. So, understanding like that and understanding what you're comfortable sharing, I think is really important. But I do believe that there's so much need for people to share their emotions, share their feelings, share what's going on Because, like Michelle said, so many people think they need to just be stoic and I'm. I'm better than all of this, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, you're not fine. We know, when you say you're fine, you're not, so let's figure out ways to deal with that.
Speaker 1:Let's think of the um the Ross meme that's out there, where he's like Michelle not a lot of us are friends.
Speaker 2:friends, Wait, I think I cut you off too. Can you say what Ross said?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a I'm fine. I'm fine. I don't know why my voice is all high and squeaky, but I'm fine, but I'm fine.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it's crazy because I was thinking it almost like, by admitting that you are grieving, it almost kind of gives you permission, I don't know. It almost kind of allows you to take that break, because you said it, you told everybody. I don't know. That's kind of where my mind was with that.
Speaker 3:Say exactly what you were just saying. It gives you permission to grieve. Not that you need permission, but in this world people feel like we do. And fine, then you're giving yourself that permission because you deserve to grieve, you deserve to be happy, you deserve all of those emotions, and I think that's something that's important for us to all share in our businesses, because we do and we don't share that enough.
Speaker 1:You don't just deserve to grieve. You need to grieve because if you don't, it will come out. It comes out physically, it will make you ill. So it is you. You absolutely deserve it, but it's absolutely necessary to grieve, however that looks for you, but you still need to do some form of grieving.
Speaker 2:I was thinking like when you were saying that, like if you don't take the time to process this and acknowledge it, I mean it's going to mess with your whole business anyways. Right, jonathan, like it goes right back. It just connects with your mindset and your physical health. I mean you're going to be angry, irrational. I mean, what are the symptoms of grief?
Speaker 3:What aren't the symptoms of grief A million?
Speaker 2:Give us your top five.
Speaker 1:Well, of course there's the five stages that everybody's familiar with, and I'm not going to go into those here. You can listen to the episode on my podcast about that. Just know that they aren't linear. So everything can be felt Anger, sadness, absolute elation, joy, and I know that sounds counterintuitive, but it's true Relief, relief.
Speaker 1:The thing is you need to honor those feelings, and I love what you said earlier, jonathan, that your emotions are your emotions. They're neutral, they just are. They're important, they're also temporary. Whatever you're feeling right now, you will not be feeling that five minutes from now, maybe a day from now, whatever it is in terms of your grief. So hold space for that. And absolutely, mimi, you know what I was just thinking too, and I'm glad anger was the first one you said, because, think about it, if you don't hold space for that grief but it's still there, it doesn't go away, it doesn't say, oh, I guess Jonathan's not grieving today, so we'll just, we'll just leave, then he won't have any grief. No, it's still there, but it'll come out in different ways. Maybe you'll be more irritable, maybe you'll forget things Forgetfulness is one of the symptoms, and you can't afford that in a solopreneurship. So that's why it's good to hold space for that grief.
Speaker 2:I've heard it here, folks In order to grow and save your business, holding space is necessary.
Speaker 1:The prime directive is to survive.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask too, michelle. I mean, you have a ton of resources and we'll put everything that you know you provide in the in the description below so you guys can link away. But you mentioned too you know there are there's support groups, either virtual or in person. I mean this is also something that you could go to as well if you need more help.
Speaker 3:Always recommend, doesn't she have one coming up?
Speaker 1:herself. Yes, I do In January of 25. Yes, we're going to be opening back up. I did this last year as a beta, as a test, but we are going to be opening up another grief journal group. It was very successful. People got a lot out of it, so we're going to be doing that again in January. No links yet for that, but you can always go and sign up for my newsletter, because my newsletter subscribers always hear about things first and and they'll be getting. I'll be putting all the details in there once they are finalized.
Speaker 2:However.
Speaker 1:I also want to say it's always good to start local. You can always call your local hospice center, even if you don't have a relative or have any connection to cancer. They have really great resources of grief groups in your area, so I would start there. I also highly recommend and I'm a little biased because I recently got my certification as a David Kessler grief educator I highly recommend his tender hearts groups. There is a support group for every type of grief. You could think of Child loss grief, parental grief loss, disenfranchised grief, like the loss of a pet grief. There's there is a group for you. So I highly recommend the tender hearts groups that David Kessler does. He's an amazing. He's an amazing. He's. He's very, he's very well known in the grief space, but he's also just one of the kindest men I've ever met.
Speaker 3:So Can I start going to the loss of a pet grief group before I lose my pet, to prepare myself for the loss of the pet?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay, good, that's absolutely a good idea, because you're prepared.
Speaker 3:Because I'm going to need that.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sending big hugs. It's so hard losing a pet.
Speaker 2:I was thinking like, yeah, yeah, Losing a pet also qualifies. I mean, there's so much in the grief space. That was a good question, Jonathan. It's like do we have to wait for something to happen in order to kind of prepare?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, because, remember, I said it's good to prepare. I wanted to slip this in as well. It's something that I tell my community over and over and over, because it's so important Build the community now. There's some quote that says the best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. Then the second best time is today. You build the thing before you need it, before the rains come. You need to put the roof on the house. You can't just say, well, I don't need a roof really, until there's some weather. No, you put the roof on the house. So it's the same thing, and I understand this.
Speaker 1:It can be a touchy subject. I hear from so many people it's difficult to make friends these days, especially in the over 40 crowd, because I guess around that time, you know, the kids start being out of the house, maybe empty nesters. You're not doing as much with the quote, unquote mom groups. That's what I've heard from women specifically. But it's almost like we should have a class on how to make friends after 40 or something. Well, I just gave myself that idea. You can cut that out. So, yeah, but it needs to be done. Grief was not meant to be done alone. We are meant to grieve together to be a support. So, if nothing else, if your listeners walk away with no other piece of advice, build a strong, supportive community now, because I guarantee you're going to need them in the future.
Speaker 3:Build a community. Now. I mean, mimi, and I even say that with business. Build your community. It's what you want to do. We were meant to be in commune with others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the way. After this, after you listen to this episode, take a couple of deep belly breaths and give yourself space to take this in, to calm your nervous system, because this is a heavy topic, but it's a heavy topic that is absolutely needed today. So I just wanted to tell your listeners that, as well, take a couple of deep breaths and take care of yourself.
Speaker 2:Michelle, first of all, I love that. It actually made me think of something real quick before we wrap up. You've talked about this before, but if you could just let us know, it could be a super quick answer, although I know it's not. But if you want to make it short just for the sake of time, jonathan, right, no, but if you're not the one who's grieving as an entrepreneur, but you have somebody in your entrepreneurial circle that is grieving through the holidays, is there anything you can do to support them? Even if maybe they're not talking about it? Should you get in there and you know and you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:One of the other things I tell my community is reach in. Don't wait for somebody who's grieving to reach out, especially if it's very fresh grief and you know about it. They are doing everything they can to just put one foot in front of the other. Dollars to dimes. They're probably not even eating correctly. So reach in and don't ask. This is one of the big things. Don't ask somebody what can I do for you? Just call me. No, they're not going to call you. Say, hey, I baked an extra pan of lasagna. I would love to bring it over at six o'clock tomorrow. Are you going to be home and I can just leave it on your porch, whatever, you don't even have to talk to me, offering practical help and specific help. That is good.
Speaker 1:Now also remember everybody's grief journey is different. So what is your relationship with the person who's grieving? Are you really really close? Are they just in your entrepreneur group, like your social group, where you talk about different ideas or brainstorm? Think first about what your relationship is with that person and what they might accept, but still reach in and offer practical, specific help and that is across the board. With anybody who's grieving. Does that help?
Speaker 2:No, it really does. Yes, thank you, okay, jonathan.
Speaker 3:All right. So first off, I want to thank everybody for listening to this episode and I wish you a very happy holiday season. And if anybody needs help, please reach out to those that can support them. And you know, if you need Michelle, we'll happily offer Michelle's phone number out to you so we can get her phone calls. Her 1-800 number 1-800-MICHELLE no, don't dial that.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that is. I know. Don't dial it.
Speaker 3:It might be something else we don't know, and Michelle's a voice actress, so it could be anything that she does. This is true. And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, Mimi, do you have a question for this episode?
Speaker 2:I do not, you do not Except the question.
Speaker 3:Well, you can ask the question, which is, of course, and well, I guess it's only fair. We have asked this to all of our guests. Yes, the answer is team Jonathan.
Speaker 2:Well, hold on a second Hold on, put the brakes on Team Jonathan. Oh, also, I want you to ask Michelle if she knows what that word is that we were talking about earlier. But anyways, you know the word, the word that you loved during high school.
Speaker 1:Afformentioned. You know the word, the word that you loved during high school Aforementioned. Oh wait, Mimi has not heard this word before. No, I'm actually not surprised.
Speaker 2:We'll put it below for you guys out there Aforementioned.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I was like at first. I'm like what, what are you saying?
Speaker 1:Tell me you fell asleep during English class without telling me you fell asleep during English class.
Speaker 2:English was my favorite subject. You stop it, okay, all right. Well, this just proves what the answer is then, jonathan.
Speaker 3:I know it's always team Jonathan.
Speaker 2:Michelle, I want you to just hold space for this. Okay, think about it. Are you team Mimi, or?
Speaker 3:team Jonathan Him.
Speaker 2:I just called him him.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the definition of holding space is to be with someone on their journey, without judgment. So I am team Mimi and Jonathan.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't handle this anymore. This is why.
Speaker 1:I'm the grief curator.
Speaker 3:Thank, you everyone. This is why, mimi, why, mimi, we're not asking that question anymore.
Speaker 2:Is it because I didn't know the definition of the word affirmation? What was the word?
Speaker 1:I said I was team Mimi and team Jonathan.
Speaker 2:One day it will be me, only me. Oh, my All right. Well, thank you again, michelle.
Speaker 3:Be careful what you wish for Bye everyone Careful what you put out into the world. Happy holidays, bye everyone. Bye everyone.
Speaker 2:Bye Michelle, bye Jonathan Howard.
Speaker 3:Bye, mimi Langley.